Comment on ONE topic from the list below:
1) Should flag burning be declared unconstitutional? What are some of the arguments for and against?
2) Do you think the FCC fine for the Justin Timberlake/Janet Jackson wardrobe malfunction during the the 2004 Super Bowl was appropriate or too much? Discuss that in the broader context of obscenity.
3) Prayer is not permitted in public schools, though it is well-known that many public schools still engage in this practice. What do you think about prayer in public schools in the context of the First Amendment?
4) Do you think the death penalty should be abolished on the grounds that it violates the Eighth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution?
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24 comments:
Before you comment on Chapters 4, 5 and 6, I strongly encourage you to look at your grades for the blog comments for the first three chapters. You should also read the email I sent this morning about grades, and pay close attention to the section regarding plagiarism on the blog.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Dr. Patton
Unconstitutional yes but wrong no we all make a social contract that some are unaware of yet aware of the punishments to follow the law and it states that we are to have freedom of speech freedom of assembly free religion but no where does it say free actions of anger or statements. If you are making a point by burning the flag you are most likely doing that out of anger or trying to make a statement and for those who are patriotic or even in the military the flag symbols so much and if you are burning my flag or a flag then you are violating my rights. For those that are for burning a flag I suggest opening a history book and how ever much you may hate your country. Learn what your country has did for you. For me the blog means expressing my thoughts using supportive facts I took a minute and tried to find something that could support the fact that someone should have the right or justified reaon to support the fact that he or she was or wanted to burn the flag well I did not see or read such. I found a website called http://www.flagburning.org/ where it showed you easier ways to burn flags and good justified times. In the end and if you have to do all that it dont need to be done in the first place there are alot more reasons for me to hang my precious flag and have a chip on my shoulder about the good old U.S then burn something that may infringe my neighbor.
FCC Chairman Michael Powell called it a “classless, crass and deplorable stunt” and asserted that America’s “children, parents and citizens deserve better.
”(http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1260) That is exactly how I feel and I believe that the rest of U.S did. I was watching with about 15 other people and including my three kids and some other children and when my son screamed I think I saw her boobie mommy I was pissed. No fine could take that memory away. Some may have saw it as a malfunction. I saw it as an elaborate stunt to create a little more publicity because sex sells.Although obscene material is somewhat legal indecent material isnt legal and indecent is what some believe that it was yet in the end the being a star part pays off and you get a measly fine and some sort of media attention and some cool interviews on Larry King Live to plead your lie or truth action. The fine part could go with the sixth amendmant they got prompt and reasonable proceedings although it was not that fair for the public it waws one incident that they recieved a fair bidding and through the media we the public spoke out.
You are free to say anything except that which is obscene,slanders another person or has high probability on inciting others to take lawless action. That is what we all as Americans recognize as the First ammendment and which coincides with the free religion. You have the right to a prayer in your school. That is your prayer as long as you are saying it to yourself and not trying to infringe it upon others how are you in the wrong. When I heard that "rule" I thought are'nt there other and more important things in the school system that they could be worry about then a prayer. A prayer is an object of worship we all do it wether its to God or not in some way we all do it. Once again there is a religious battle going on to how far you can test one. All I have to say to that I tell my children to pray to themselves and if someone ask you what you are doing you say none of your buissness. For those who made that law when your laying in a hospital bed crying out because of the antagonizing pain who do you cry for. You say OH GOD. The school may not always be the place to recieve the holy ghost but there is nothing wong with a quiet prayer.
In 1973 I entered the service to fight for my country. I was extremely patriotic and was willing to die if my number came up. In everything I did as a soldier the flag was involved. It became a symbol of everything we were fighting for. When I came home people were spitting on us and even burning the flag. They were strongly against the war and us it seemed. Much of that time I spent reflecting on the war our nation and what I felt it stands for. In every turn of our nation’s glorious history it was constantly a fight for freedom of speech, expression and to live as one wills. I finally came to the conclusion that those people protesting were exercising their rights of free speech and expressing their feelings for the missteps of our government. I still believe that far too many men and women have died for our rights of free speech and expression. If someone wants to burn the flag or burn the president in effigy to protest something they truly believe in then they should have the right to do that. I believe I would have given my life for others to have those rights. I disagree with senator Brownback I think were are talking apples and oranges. Defacing a landmark and burning the flag are not nearly the same. One is defacing government property the other is a God given right of free speech. Senator Feingold had it right when he said, “Our country and our people are far too strong to be threatened by those who burn the flag. That is a lesson we should proudly teach our children”.
I definitely believe the FCC fine for the Justin Timberlake/Janet Jackson wardrobe ‘malfunction’ was appropriate. I agree with Chastity, that in today’s world, sex sells. I believe that it was a planned stunt and because they are both ‘stars’, they knew they would get away with a slap on the wrist. The Super Bowl is mostly associated with men (I am not discriminating against women; I watch the Super Bowl too) so this could have been a way to sell sex and make Janet more popular again. She might have used this to promote a new CD that she might have been coming out with, who knows. I agree with Chastity again, with the fact that they knew this would get a lot of publicity and they would be going on lots of talk shows and getting their names out there again. This action was obscene due to the fact that the Super Bowl is widely watched and the viewers had trust in the network that nothing obscene was going to happen. Children watch the Super Bowl as well, and to display this content to the children without the parents consent, is wrong. It is also obscene because it diminishes our reputation and our social value. Other countries tend to base their concepts of Americans to the images of Hollywood stars and this act sent out bad messages. It seems that Hollywood keeps pushing the limit and getting more obscene. There are a lot of young children that look up to these stars and find what these stars do, to be cool. This is a very bad thing. Hollywood should be a positive role model, but in the recent years, it has taken a turn for the worst.
week 2 ch.4
Prayer is not permitted in public schools and I feel as though it should remain that way. Our Framers of the Constitution state that school and prayer should be separated and not be a ritual that is done on a daily basis led by the school itself. I feel if a student or a group of students elect to bring prayer into the school then they should be allowed to do so on their own time and the school assist these students in allowing them a place to meet. For example, as sad as this story is, a group of roughly 50 Fellowship of Christian Athlete students meeting in the lobby of Heath High School in Paducah, KY on December 1, 1997. The school had opened the doors to allow this group to meet on their own time prior to school beginning. Of course at the end of the meeting as prayer was concluding, Michael Carneal walked in and opened fire killing three fellow students. Even though this incident was not provoked due to the group of students meeting for prayer, this was an incident that did happen within our public schools where prayer was taking place.
I thoroughly agree with Heath High School officials obliging to the student’s request to allow them to meet before school. If a student wants to spend his lunch time praying, a Muslim wants to kneel and pray outside on their break between classes, I feel as though a school system should allow this. In addition to what our Framer’s stated in the Constitution regarding this separation, I am sure there are many students in our school’s today that do not believe in God or believe in a higher power and I feel as though they should not be made to pray.
week 2 Chapter 5
Ask just about anyone and they all will tell you they are in favor of equal rights for same-sex couples. Just mention jobs, government benefits, equal rights, housing, etc and most people will say that same-sex couples should be allowed all these things. However, when these same people are asked about same-sex marriage, most will stop the talk of equality and oppose this issue. I myself am in favor of same-sex marriage. However, a lot of people are not and many aren’t due to the misunderstanding of homosexual relationships.
I feel that a lot of people believe that gay relationships are promiscuous, they aren’t able to form a long-lasting relationship and the ones that are formed are uncommitted. Believe it or not, the straight society has these same types of relationships. I believe that love is love regardless of who you fall there with whether they are male or female. Marriage is something that is legalized between two people who love one another and have every intention of living together as domestic and sexual partners (Encarta English Dictionary). As far as I know, that definition does not say a man and a woman, it states “two people” which could easily be interpreted to be two men or two women. I feel that if two people want to marry and be committed to one another, they should be allowed. The love that they have for one another is present and the commitment is there, where in today’s society, commitment is something hard to find whether it be in homosexual relationships or straight relationships. I feel that if two people want to take that next step forward to prove their love, commitment and devotion for one another, they should be permitted to do so.
Chasity
Do you believ that a Wuccan should be able to perform incantations in school too? How about Moslems laying a rug and praying to the east during recess, is this ok?
as I went back and read my blog on question 1 chapter 4 I realized that I messed up on sentence one I am sorry I meant unconstitutional yes but wrong also yes
thanks
to bill wren I am knew at this bolgging thing so I guess this is how I reply to your comment
Think real hard Bill can I call you Bill if they laid a rug down would they really be bothering you Remember "they" laid the rug down not Bill wren. Sometimes society worries a little to much about things that we should look over after all ones religion is ones religion and once again as long as us "ones" are'nt trying to influence you people that seem so bothered by that rug just walk around the rug please.
chas
I believe that flag burning is not unconstitutional in that even everyone is protected under first amendment rights of free speech and free expression. Even though I personally find the notion of burning the flag to be wrong, I am only one in a nation of many and I would not want my rights to be trampled upon by others just as if others would not want me to preach on my soapbox about flag burning. However, there are those who would want flag burning declared unconstitutional. Some argue that flag burning is unpatriotic and shows disrespect for one’s country and flag. Also, they argue that flag burning defaces the flag and a majority of society believe the act of burning the flag to be offensive. Those who support flag burning have the US Supreme Court to back up their act of “symbolic speech.” Several times in the past 30 years, the Supreme Court has ruled that flag burning is protected under the Constitution in granting freedom of speech and freedom of expression to those who are protesting. In the end, I believe it is only a matter of time before the Supreme Court could one day move ideologically to the right and declare flag burning is not protected speech.
I agree with Bill Wren in his remarks about flag burning. When I was in the Navy and stationed in Washington DC, I remember actually seeing people burning the flag on the National Mall, and the police watched them like hawks. The protestors were cordoned off from access to the capitol and other federal buildings facing the Mall and you could tell that the government was not stopping those who were burning the flag; however, they were keeping them away from government property. I guess that the police saw the protestors were kept away just enough so not to impede those who worked at the Capitol and not allow them to deface or damage actual government property. From what I saw of the flag burning, it did bother me, but I did not want to confront the protestors more out of concern of safety than patriotic duty to say that they were wrong in defacing the flag.
I believe burning the American flag is extremely immoral. Anyone who burns the American flag apparently doesn’t have any pride and appreciation for the country they live in. Not only do they not appreciate the country they live in but they don’t appreciate what the American soldiers have sacrificed for us. The flag is a symbol for everything America represents. I can understand when someone says they are expressing free speech and their feelings and that’s why I believe it’s not unconstitutional. Our country represents freedom but that’s why I find it so hard for someone who believes and practices freedom of speech to destroy the symbol itself. It’s almost like they are contradicting their very reason for burning the flag.
To first, address the issue of Prayer in school. I believe that the issue involving the “establishment of religion” has been terribly misconstrued. Think for a second what doses establishment mean? Dose it mean seeing someone else perform an action. Alternatively, dose it mean hearing someone talk about what the believe? Alternatively, even reading what is considered a religious book? The dictionary defines it as: to bring about permanently: to establish order.
To enact, appoint, or ordain for permanence, as a law; fix unalterably.
To make (a church) a national or state institution.
To establish something means more then just participation in an action. Our founding fathers never meant this clause to be so distorted. They placed that in the constitution to give people freedom to practice religion and to prevent the government from establishing a state church or religion as had been in England. This had nothing to do with an individual participating in their religion. To place bans on the prayers of any religion is twisted and morbid. It is not freedom from religion it is prohibiting the free exercise of it. The separation of Church and state dose not mean that people can not practice of display religious symbols in public places it mean that the government cannot operate through the church a means of government and that it cannot again establish a state religion and church. Few people are aware of the vast violations taking place in America against people’s ability to practice religion. I would suggest reading or looking at David Limbaugh ‘s book persecution. Where he documents cases of great religious restriction in America. Even cases involving young children. One such story documents two young girls bringing a Bible to school and being taken into the principle office yelled a punished and had their bible being taken away before their parents arrived. Regardless of their faith, no child or person of that matter should have their personal belongings thrown away little long their religious book. Such cases really make one question how far are we as Americans willing to let this go. Are we willing to have our beliefs pushed aside and abused just because someone else dose not agree or dose not want to see it? Do we really want to get to be like France where no religious symbols can be worn to school? Imagine what that would mean for you if you area young Muslim girl? You might feel immodest and unfaithful not being able to be your headscarf. I personally think and believe that if we don not get a grip on this we will eventually loose our freedoms to practice religion.
First of all, for Erica W.: I'm sorry, but NOWHERE does it state in the Constitution that prayer and school must be seperate. C'mon, (and again I paraphrase)the Constitution prohibits the establishment of a "sponsored" religion. By that, I mean that the Constitution and our government can not declare one religion to be the official religion. With that, I offer my stand on the prayer in school debate. I am not a religious person by any means. So does that give me the right to state that those persons who are religious may not practice in my presence? NO! I teach my students that my rights in no way supercede their rights in Constitutional terms. Keep in mind, of course, the authority issue mentioned in Chapter 1 of our text. I congratulate those schools that have the guts to allow prayer, meditation, or Wucca incantations (reference Bill Wren). As long as people are given some guideline as to when this would be appropriate in the school day, I say why not. I think Bill and I have a unique perspective on our country as opposed to others in the class. (Please, correct me if I am wrong) We have "been there and done that." We have a few years under our belts and we can remember what it was like in the '70's and so on. I can remember teaching in suburban Cleveland, Ohio in the 80's. Think about this. I had just left Lewis County Kentucky. You wanna talk about diversity. I had a Jewish student (Orthodox, I might add) that could not perform at a Saturday football game. Forcing him to perform would have been exactly the same, in my mind, as forcing him to go against his religion. By not allowing students or staff to pray or otherwise is a violation of our Constitution plain and simple. Like all things, moderation and guidance must be in place. My high school band has a word of prayer prior to every performance. Do I participate, yes. Do I force non-believers (yes, we have a few) to join us, NO! My students choose to pray. If it weren't for those who have a private agenda making waves, would this really be an issue? By "forcing" schools to disallow prayer, etc., I think we've just opened the door to the practice of atheism. Anyone care to comment?
ON Bill's flag burning blog.CONGRATULATIONS on a very well stated position. If someone wants to burn the flag, I'll be the first in line to call them an idiot, but its not my right to infringe on another's. BRAVO Sir!
To comment on Erica W’s thoughts on same sex marriage:
To preface my comments: I personally believe that same sex relationships are a perversion of what is intended and are in no way moral. However I believe that lost of things are immoral and such beliefs do not keep me being friends with people how make all kinds of choices I disagree with.
Erica spoke of love and commitment, which sounds fine and is but is no way the norm for anyone for our society. Just look at divorce rates, children born our of wedlock, single parent homes and much more. Yet even more alarming is the rate of unfaithfulness and promiscuity among homosexuals. Opra recently did a special on the homosexual lifestyles and discussed staggering figures and trends among gay men. One such trend is that of bathhouses where one man may have up to 30 partners in one night. Another scary trend is the practicing of “bare backing” (the engaging in anal sex without a condom with a sick or weak looking man) the purpose is to see if one can come out of the sexual encounter without aids. Also discussed was the increasing trend of meth use among gays with heightens sex drive and stamina and allows for more activity. Yet non of this is new information, David Horowitz the founder of the new left movement in his book Radical son discusses his research about homosexual “relationship/s encounters” in America in the 80’s and 90’s. Here he visits bath houses and talks with many homosexuals and finds: “that studies show that nearly 70 percent of the gay population frequent bath houses, and that the average bath house patron had nearly 3 sexual contacts on any given night, and a 33 percent chance of walking out with a venereal disease”. He found that such bathhouses were set up with anonymous sex rooms with waist level holes in the wall and giant orgy rooms. Along with such staggering research he details graphic details of why gay men are more likely to contract aids then a promiscuous heterosexual couple. So regardless of ones feelings such facts and lifestyles should be shocking to us and I would hope that in America we would choose to stand for some level of morality rather then fall prey to any given desire.
In response to ashleymason: I of course have several issues with your response to my blog. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I do respect that. First off, I would like to know what "norm" is in today's society. What exactly is the definition of norm these days for citizens in our country as well as across the world? I respect the stand that you take on this issue; however I have to respond to your comment, "Erica spoke of love and commitment, which sounds fine and is but is no way the norm for anyone for our society. Just look at divorce rates, children born our of wedlock, single parent homes and much more. Yet even more alarming is the rate of unfaithfulness and promiscuity among homosexuals." Divorce rate (straight couples since a true divorce isn’t among the homosexual population), children out of wedlock (straight couples) and single parent homes (likely straight)….how do you compare an unfaithful/promiscuous homosexual relationship to these three issues that are so prominent in our society today? Some homosexual relationships, definitely not ALL, are promiscuous and unfaithful; however so are A LOT of straight couples. As far as the bathhouses go, yes, they are popular in bigger cities in the gay lifestyle, but again so are brothels among straight people, we just don’t hear about it because supposedly that is what is considered ok since it is between a man and a woman. In some cases you even have swingers (straight couples who are looking for a third to join them…does that fall in the norm category?) Why is it that we do not have statistics regarding straights and what all they contract. This type of behavior is among all people of all walks of life, straight, gay, bi, or even the tri ones (those being the ones that will try anything once). It is a shame that straight people’s relationships behind closed doors, out in the public or wherever is not discussed, but homosexual relationships are pulled through the mud and people assume that if you are gay you are one that sleeps around, you are unfaithful, you are promiscuous, etc. That is not the case with all homosexuals…just as it is not the case that all straight people are faithful, only have sex with their committed partner and that they are not promiscuous at all.
Scott - please recall that in Engle v. Vitale (1962), the Supreme Court determined that school-sponsored prayer (even a non-denominational one) is not permitted in public schools. In subsequent cases, they have clarified their position. Prayer before graduation is not allowed; prayer before sporting events is not allowed. Anyone can pray in their own head whenever they want to. No one is trying to take away anyone's "right to pray". The Court is simply saying that a public school cannot endorse a prayer... in other words, no teacher-led or student-led prayer. For those who support these prayers... I think the point Bill was trying to make was everyone seems to have no problem with a prayer that is consistent with their personal religion. Typically when we suggest having a Jewish prayer, or Muslim prayer, or prayer worshipping the devil, people tend to think twice about the idea of having religion in the schoolhouse. I usually ask my students a simple question. When you go to church on Sunday, does your preacher pass around math problems to do during the service?
I firmly believe that flag burning should be declared unconstitutional. There is much more to being an American than a birth certificate and a social security card. We all should be educated about our country, aware of the sacrifices people have made for our country, and fully supportive and respectful of our country. Poeple such as Martin Luther King Jr, who challenge the government policies or decisions, are merely trying to improve upon the U.S. However, there is nothing contructive about burning an American Flag. Honestly, i feel that someone who would burn a flag is a threat to national security. Poeple have the right to oppose the government, but attempting to deface or destroy it is a huge step past opposition. It brings hate into the equation, and i feel for our protection there hould be consequences for exerting such hate on our country. I understand the position of people who say it shouldnt be unconstitutional. We all do have certain rights guaranteed under the first amendment. It is logical for people to think that you should ALWAYS have these, regardless of the circumstances. I dont think that people who believe this way are "wrong", they are just not nearly as conservative as i am. I think that people should have the right to talk poorly about America, but to take action to show hatred towards it is crossing the line, in my opinion.
No I do not think that the death penalty should be abolished. I think that there are some crimes committed that jail time can not do justice for. To me, the cruel and unusual punishment mentioned in the 8th amendment is some sort of torture that could be done to a person who is found guilty of a crime. A cruel and unusual punishment would be brutally beating a man near death as a way of punishment for a crime committed. I don't think that the death penalty counts as cruel and unusual. Plus, it would cost a lot more to keep everybody who has been executed in prison for life than it would be to execute them.
3) Prayer is not permitted in public schools, though it is well-known that many public schools still engage in this practice. What do you think about prayer in public schools in the context of the First Amendment?
I think that people should be allowed to pray in school if they choose to do so. I do not, however, believe that prayer should be mandatory, unless that school is a religious institution. When I was in school, we had a "moment of silence" right before homeroom in which we could "contemplate our day." Surely if someone chose to pray at school, it could be done at this time (as I did). I think that this would be a great solution to the problem. Not only would this give students a chance to pray it they would like to, but it would also give students a chance to calm down a bit before classes start.
Dr. Patton- I'll agree that the Supreme court has clarified their stance of prayer in school, but the word that bothers me is "endorse". In a county school system just east of me, each of the high schools, I believe there are 4, had the Ten Commandments on marble monuments at the entrances. That, in my mind, is endorsement of a religion. The court cases made big news around here. My statements on the issue, as you know, are my interpretation. In response to the math problem at church, it happens. My wife believes she must tithe ten percent of her earnings. And when that time comes on Sunday morning, she and several others pull out the calculators to get it to the penny. I've seen them do it. Extreme case in point, but I take my stand on the literal meaning of the Constitution. Perhaps I should have been more specific in my original blog. If led by a student or staff person, yes, that's a problem to some extent, but to not allow prayer is still a violation of the right.
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